Ainur part 2

Tolkien Discussion Group

March 3, 2010

Topic: Ainur, continued

Present:

BelenosStormchaser Magic

Lihan Taifun

Dominique Darkwatch

Arceleus90 Farspire

Jeremiah Pintens

AelKennyr Rhiano

Summary:

Dominique Darkwatch: The Ainur came into being from the thought of the creator, Eru Iluvatar. Then they joined together in song and music to engage in the process of creation. Certain members of the Ainur had their will and their music bent toward different aspects of the creation, based on their personalities. And the mightiest among them chose to come to the creation, Arda, as the Valar.

Last week, we thought the Valar, being archetypes, were rather "static" personalities. This week we found examples of Valar with multidimensional personalities, and concluded that Ainur, even the Valar, probably have a lot more personality than Tolkien took the time to detail in the stories. The conflicts involved in dealing with the created races helps to deepen Ainur personalities, so the Ainur who have the most contact with created races are the most complex.

From a roleplay perspective, it probably takes time for an Ainu to change shape, or to reform a body that has been killed. So, only one body per roleplay session.

In Judeo-Christian mythology, angels do not mate with other angels, and only "fallen" angels mate with humans. Does that make Melian in some sense "fallen"? Did she lose anything by marrying Thingol? Could Maiar in dragon form mate, and create a race of dragons?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: sorry I missed last week.. what did I miss?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · Arceleus, are you familiar with the Silmarillion?

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · ·The term is vaguely familliar, But no

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · ok, it is Tolkien's backstory to Lord of the Rings, all the ancient history of Middle Earth

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Ah from children

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · from the creation of the world, the origins of the elf tribes, REALLY old history

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Few know of it

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · Dominique, do you think you could give a quick summary of how the Ainur come into the story?

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·Ah..the Ainur . The Ainur, from my understanding, came into being from the thought of the creator...Eru Iluvatar. Then they joined together in song and music to engage in the process of creation. Certain members of the Ainur had their will and their music bent toward different aspects of the creation, based on their personalities. And the mightiest among them chose to come to the creation, Arda, as the Valar. Dominique Darkwatch smiles: Hope my didn't mess it up too much

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · that was very good

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · I understand

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · we are by nature spirit beings, but we can take physical form when we wish

BelenosStormchaser Magic: how quickly can an ainur change physical form?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · good question. I don't know of any stories where that was an issue

BelenosStormchaser Magic: no.. probably not in the stories.. but could be relevent for our role play.. :D

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · except the parts about the evil ainur losing their abilities to change shape

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·It became an issue with Melkor/morgoth

BelenosStormchaser Magic: really?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · and later Sauron. They got trapped in their shapes

BelenosStormchaser Magic: Heya Jeremiah.. grab a seat.. :)

{Greetings all around}

BelenosStormchaser Magic: because their personality became static? .. too evil to change to anything else?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · or because they were so out-of-touch with Eru that they weren't "recharging their batteries"? Maybe that comes to the same thing, in the end

BelenosStormchaser Magic: but that implies all their power and abilities comes from him? even after being created

Dominique Darkwatch nods: true

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · as I recall, last week we were thinking theValar, being archetypes, were pretty "static " personalities

BelenosStormchaser Magic: but that would mean that melkor was 'made' evil?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · which makes no sense

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Its not possible

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · indeed

BelenosStormchaser Magic: I would think it odd that humans can grow in personality and character.. but valar could not

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · The key difference here is that the Valar were unchanging, immortal and were more or less the archetypical forces of their world. They were as they were, at any given point. That's... my take on them.

BelenosStormchaser Magic: but why would they be locked into that?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · except, as you said, for Melkor (Melkor is the one who "went bad" and became Morgoth)

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · Locked?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: unchanging.. means they cannot change.. locked into who they are

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · It is as if they are not even living beings

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · I'd not consider being that powerful though specialized locked

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Unable to adapt

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·Because they acted in concert with the will of Eru.....

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · If you think of them as various types of energy, I think it would make more sense

BelenosStormchaser Magic: so they were mindless?

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·Perhaps adaptation was not so necessary

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · Yes, exactly

BelenosStormchaser Magic: but energy doesn't have personality..

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · Hmmm

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · I guess I think of us as "one-dimensional personalities"

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Mind set on one sole purpose

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · archetypes, not much complexity

BelenosStormchaser Magic: so why then would anyone want to play a valar in role play.. *chuckles*

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · yeah, tell me about it, Belanos!

BelenosStormchaser Magic: and... what purpose for you then in Eru's eyes?like a drone that just kept certain areas of the world running

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Maybe they were not living at all

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·I do not think of Ainur as one dimensional at all

BelenosStormchaser Magic: but didn't the Ainur feel and think?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · and mess up their jobs

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·They did! The had a sense of wonder...they loved the creation

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Sounds like an entity

BelenosStormchaser Magic: well, they are individual enough for one to turn bad.. and that bad one to have a huge effect on the world.. so if one could have independant thought then others could, I would think. See.. personality.. personality is not single dimensioned

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·Indeed. And some Valar had complex personalities

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · who did?

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·Ulmo seemed to, at times

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · I would make the case that Osse is more complex than Ulmo.

BelenosStormchaser Magic: and yeah.. didn't they have spouses etc? that's not quite the activity of an entity.. :D

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · Osse and Uinen have personalities (whispers:Ulmo is Vala of the Sea, and Osse and Uinen do the coastal waters)

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·Tulkas also was one described as always laughing

BelenosStormchaser Magic: bit too much dwarven mead huh?.. :D

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · if anyone would, it would be Tulkas

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · and of course, Melian

BelenosStormchaser Magic: so clearly they thought and felt and did stuff..

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Why always laughing?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · so, again, it is the more minor characters who are the most "interesting" personalities.and Then we have Ganalf and the other wizards, who are Ainur on special assignment. Again, minor Ainur, being interesting

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · An interesting way to put it

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · In mythologies...often with archetypes they will espouse a single quality or a few qualities. They are amazing one dimensional that way.

BelenosStormchaser Magic: lol.. and so we end up back to square one, but..

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · lol, that was my point,Ael, and they didn't buy it

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · Think of Greek mythologies.Aphrodite was what?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: I don't believe they were one dimensional.. How could Melien have children etc and marry if she were like that

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · please, if I may contine?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: but we aren't talkign about mythology in general, ael.. but about tolkien's ainur... but even in mythology they had personalities I think.. but let's here what you think first.. *grins*

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · If you look at the Silmarillion...Some Valar like Ulmo are one dimensional. They serve as a vehicle for the plot or to espouse a set of qualities. HOWEVER Then you get those like Yavannah or Melian. They are amazingly fleshed out. In a book not every single character is fleshed out

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · Excellent point.

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · Some are bit players, even though they may be might Ainu or Valar.

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · This was even true of the characters that were Wizards, no?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · yeah, Nienna gets two short scenes

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · And Olwe, brief mentions

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · true

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · He is extremely one dimensional in the book.

BelenosStormchaser Magic: so one could assume that because some had personalities and got to do stuff that the others did too seeing as they were from the same race.. just it wasn't mentioned as part of the story.. ?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · yes. If it were a play...they had "bit parts.",or were walk-ons

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·Tolkien had SO many characters...no way to flesh them all out

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Like Sauron. It is a tool to keep the reader guessing, the less you know about the enemy the more evil he seems to be

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · true, about enemies

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · A lot of Tolkien rpers assume it is far better to play an elven king than an half elf. That is not always so. And you must not forget the "theme" of the Silmarillion...or themes

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·I could see RPing a major character might be difficult.Wearing a heavy mantle of expectations

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · kings have to stay home and run their lands (unless they manage to lose their entire populace)

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · I could never see myself roleplaying as a royal

BelenosStormchaser Magic: it is limiting.. Ithilia gets to stay home and grow fat a lot.. :D

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · see, first you must define "major" character. Despite being a king, Olwe is not.

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · the entire Teleri are minor characters. They enter the story so they can build swanships for the Noldor to steal

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · yet, we must have them to have the Doom that befalls the Noldor

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · but really the whole story is told from the Noldor side

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · yes, it is

BelenosStormchaser Magic: ahhh. plot bunnies.. every author has them.. :D

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Plot bunnies are my favorite little tool : )

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · so ... we are going to assume the Ainur have personalities even if they don't show up in the stories?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: well, even if all don't show their personalities in the stories

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · right

BelenosStormchaser Magic: otherwise it's like saying only the elves who were elaborated on had any personality..

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · I think so, yes

Dominique Darkwatch nods: I would say yes

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Yes

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · and I think the more contact the Ainur have with mortal races, the more and deeper their personalities are

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · that would make sense

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Like they are learning how to have a personality

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · heh heh, mortals are "educational"

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·Well, the mortal races pose various conflicts for them

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · If you read things like the Iliad or the Aeniad, that is exactly what happened to the gods and goddesses

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · They should be envious

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · the Ainur should be?

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Yes, There are plenty of reasons why an immortal would envy a mortal

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · true. Elves envied humans

BelenosStormchaser Magic: yeah.. mortals get better sex.. :D oops.. did I say that out loud.. *grins*

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · And Orcs envied everyone XDD

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · how do you know, Belanos?

Dominique Darkwatch laughs

BelenosStormchaser Magic grins.. I think it's to do with the life is short, so make the most of it theory

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · humans sure reproduce faster than elves

BelenosStormchaser Magic: I rest my case.. :D or perhaps it's because elves have too much of the higher mind stuff going on? Lose touch with their bodies?

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · If so Aragorn would be much older than predicted with his child's birth

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · I missed that?

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · Nevermind

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·So is a comparison of elf and human sex going to be a future topic?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: now that would be interesting.. :D

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · No thanks

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · it can be

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · We started to think about how long does it take an Ainu to change shape? or, I suppose, to take shape?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: yes!

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · It seems like an evil Ainu might take months or years to reform a new body. so, would you think that best case it would take a day or two?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: what is involved in their shape shifting? What do they use to do it?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · manipulating matter by mental powers, I think. "mental" in a broad sense

BelenosStormchaser Magic: so one would think they'd have to be pretty familiar with what they wanted to change into.. so like ulmo wouldn't really choose a camel?

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·The same way they engaged in other creative acts

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · it does say that at first, we only could copy the exterior shapes of bodies, not being real familiar with how bodies "work"

BelenosStormchaser Magic: ahh

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · I expect we got better at it, over the ages

Arceleus90 Farspire: · · · · · · I have to go. Duty calls

Dominique Darkwatch: · · · · ·me too

{Farewells}

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · the wizards seem to have pretty realitic bodies

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · anyway, my point was heading toward, if an Ainu's body was killed, it would probably take until next RP session to rebuild a body

BelenosStormchaser Magic: yes, I would think so at least.. no instant shape shifting for them

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · but if the ainu's spirit was bound in some manner by the Valar themselves?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · was bound to what?

AelKennyr Rhiano thinks. bound to remain etheral

BelenosStormchaser Magic: so tell me, if Maiar are lesser ainur, and dragons come from maiar, are they immortal too? at least in spirit.. could they be killed and come back in a new body?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · but I would think you would be mortal but have a longer life than other mortal being

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · I think Belanos' question is, if the Maiar have bodies, and have babies (like Melian did), and both parents are Maiar, what is the status of the hatchlings?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: interesting question

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · where do the souls of those hatchlings come from? (where do human or elf souls come from, for that matter? but we know such exist)

BelenosStormchaser Magic: well, where did the souls of melien's children come from?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · Melian's children were elves, Luthien

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · but half elves?she was Maia

BelenosStormchaser Magic: have any two maiar reproduced?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · not that I know about, not in any version of stories that make the final cut. In some early versions, some of the Maiar were "children" of some of the Valar, whatever that means

BelenosStormchaser Magic: interesting concept

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · but it can't mean what it means for mortals

BelenosStormchaser Magic: but you'd think they could reproduce.. the valar at least.. otherwise why have spouses?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · and remember the Tolkien considered the valar analogous to Christians angels

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · why have spouses if you can't reproduce? *pokes Belanos*

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · Well, consider the world in which Tolkien lived, and the social norms

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · And in christian mythology, as well as Judiac mythologies, angels were only able to reproduce with mortals

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · if that

BelenosStormchaser Magic: so if they could reproduce with mortals, why couldn't they reproduce with others of their own kind?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · For angels, Angels took on the semblance of mortal form, but only humans were granted by God the abilty to house the creative spark that allowed life.

BelenosStormchaser Magic: but... didn't the ainur sing the world into being? So they created life, yes?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · They were an instrument.

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · And once angels mated with humans, they were "lost" or "fallen" from their state of grace

BelenosStormchaser Magic: so melien was 'fallen'?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · Much like in Judeo tradition, the concept of God being surrounded by seraphim who constantly would sing the praises of the Creator.

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · wait, wait ... I thought it was more like only a "fallen" angel would have any interest in mating with a human. Although not clear that applies to Melian

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · ahhh,,, good and interesting point. It would seem that something must be changed about an angel who would decide to mate with a mortal.

BelenosStormchaser Magic: don't know about angels.. but if you apply that to tolkein does that make melien fallen? cast out?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · I would not say fallen as in the way we think of Lucifer? but fallen from an elevated state of grace

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · interesting that nothing is said about Melian losing any status

BelenosStormchaser Magic: exactly

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · But if you read the Silmarillion carefully, does she ever rejoin the Valar?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: that's a huge assumption to make that she 'must' have somehow lost something

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · I thought, after Thingol dies, she does go home, yes, though not much is said about it

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · And when she is mentioned, although she is powerful and wise...does she get spoken of in the same sense as the other Ainur?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · her part in the story is already over

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · She seems to become more concerned with the mortal world when we see her in the story. What happens after Elu dies? to Melian?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: how much do the ainur get referred to after the story begins?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · hardly at all, unless they directly affectd the action

BelenosStormchaser Magic: then her not being mentioned much like the other ainur isn't really an issue, it would seem

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · we were metioning last week, the elves are always calling on Elbereth ... but what does Elbereth ever do?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · no, this is really and truly in the realm of speculation.

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · major speculation

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · and, frankly extrapolation

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · and we love it

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · yes :)

BelenosStormchaser Magic: hehe. was an interesting thought I had .. that's why I asked about if dragons could regenerate

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · are you sure you were hatched? and not Maia yourself?

BelenosStormchaser Magic: if ithila were somehow killed.. she could come back.. but of course not in full dragon form.. but smaller.. hehe.. have to go through the whole growth process again.. :D

BelenosStormchaser Magic: see that's just it.. the assumption is that the first dragons were maia.. but after that?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · you know, dwarves believed they could reincarnate

BelenosStormchaser Magic: actually were there any female dragons mentioned at all?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · hmmmm

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · who besides another dragon could tell?

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · I cannot remember any, myself

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · no female orcs mentioned, either, but there must be some

BelenosStormchaser Magic: yet maia were male and female

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · watch the way they pee on Ossy? AelKennyr Rhiano blushes and grins

BelenosStormchaser Magic: so there's the potential for both genders to have been twisted by morgoth

BelenosStormchaser Magic: LOL@ Ossy

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · "Oh...yeah, that was definitely a male dragon. Euuu."

Lihan Taifun pretends she is ignoring that

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · It's Ossy's fault. He is corrupting me.

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · He does that

BelenosStormchaser Magic: perhaps it could be something in how our hips are aligned.. doesn't lend itself to squatting.. :P

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · the better to lay eggs

BelenosStormchaser Magic: seems someone in avillion bugged one of our dragons recently.. so they bought the tree pee animation and went back and peed all over avilion.. :D

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · rofl

BelenosStormchaser Magic: hehe.. between ossy and fox, you have no chance .. :D

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · so, we don't know whether Maiar can reproduce to create more Maiar

BelenosStormchaser Magic: well, we know they can when mated with an elf.. but not for sure if they can when mated together

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · right, and I don't think an elf and a dragon would be a good plan

BelenosStormchaser Magic: lol.. could also explain why ithilia and morchaint have no offspring, as morchaint is maia too

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · maybe you just aren't ready for children yet

BelenosStormchaser Magic: LOL BelenosStormchaser Magic pictures dragon/fox crossbreeds

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · I'm trying not to picture a foxagon cross. or a dragox?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · like a hexagon

BelenosStormchaser Magic: can you imagine a dwarven/ elf cross?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · ewwww why?!

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · eeeuuuu That is just wrong

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · a dwelf

Jeremiah Pintens: · · · · · · · · Tall, slim and a giant beard? Sounds like Bob Ross

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · and those are thedaughters

BelenosStormchaser Magic: or short and fat with big ears

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · What will we discuss next week?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · yes, good question

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · Continue discussion on the ainur?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · do we have any other topics on hold? We've done ainur for two weeks now

AelKennyr Rhiano thinks

BelenosStormchaser Magic: what was the one mentioned earlier by dominque?

Lihan Taifun: · · · · · · · · · · · · · sex?

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · well, we need to decide on when to start reading parts of the Silmarillion, and what to read first.

BelenosStormchaser Magic: yes.. which is better. human or immortal sex :O

AelKennyr Rhiano: · · · · · · · · ok, let's do that

BelenosStormchaser Magic: no no no nonooooooooooooooooooooooooo don't make me do it!!!

---

I found the passage about what happened to Melian, after Thingol died.

{Thingol was killed by Dwarves, in a quarrel over the Silmaril that Beren and Luthien brought to Thingol.}

Melian sat long in silence beside Thingol the King, and her thought passed back into the starlit years and to their first meeting among the nightingales of Nan Elmoth in ages past; and she knew that her parting from Thingol was the forerunner of a greater parting, and that the doom of Doriath was drawing nigh.  For Melian was of the divine race of the Valar, and she was a Maia of great power and wisdom; but for love of Elwë Singollo she took upon herself the form of the Children of Ilúvatar, and in that union she became bound by the chain and trammels of the flesh of Arda.  In that form she bore to him Lúthien Tinúviel; and in that form she gained a power over the substance of Arda, and by the Girdle of Melian {i.e. her protective magic surrounding the land} was Doriath defended through long ages from the evils without.  But now Thingol lay dead, and his spirit had passed to the halls of Mandos; and with his death a change came also upon Melian.  Thus it came to pass that  her power was withdrawn in that time {... from the lands...} and Doriath lay open to its enemies.

{Melian sets in order her affairs as Queen} and she vanished out of Middle-earth, and passed to the land of the Valar beyond the western sea, to muse upon her sorrows in the gardens of Lórien, whence she came, and this tale speaks of her no more.

Silmarillion, "Of the Ruin of Doriath"

I wonder what is meant by "in that union she became bound by the chain and trammels of the flesh of Arda", if it means more than "she lived all that time in a physical body".
Also "in that form she gained a power over the substance of Arda" suggests that her protective magic for the land was stronger when she was in her physical body.
There must  be ideas here that Prof. Tolkien didn't fully put down on the page, or  that didn't survive the editing process for the Silmarillion.