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Wednesday, December 2, 2009


Tolkien Discussion Group
December 2, 2009
Topic: Merfolk
Fifi Wickentower
AelKennyr Rhiano
Lihan Taifun
Ossy Portocarrero
BelenosStormchaser Magic

Wow, look at you two
It's mer day lol
I hope merfolk are immune to the cold
We will have to ask a mer about that
Ainu are
You know, I don't have a merman's outfit
Everyone is a mermaid... I'm the mermaid king, why am I in pants?
Why are you in pants?
And you aren't, Ulmo is
There are advantages to being cold-blooded, in this weather

Fifi, did you find any research on mer people?
There was almost nothing
"almost nothing" or exactly nothing?
I found a brief reference to a mermaid island, but no details and not in the regular books
oooh, tell us!
Fifi Wickentower: rummages through notes *:D
Well, a brief reference is enough to prove they do exist in Tolkien's universe!

We could move down to the lake
Come on warm blooded one ^^
Hey, are you two coming over to the water?
They probably fell asleep. We know Fifi is looking for the reference, probably lost in her inventory
Careful on that boat. It's so tempting, because no one ever rides that boat ... although he does have sense enough to sit in the center; t won't tip over immediately ...
heh heh heh I are smrt
Centuries on ships, he does learn something
Referring to Earendel and Idril: There had been a time of loss and wandering and the conchs were calling to Ulmo to return. That is when her found the wreckage and told Earendel that he had been saved to go to Kor. There is something called the Books of Lost Tales and that is were the only reference I could find was listed.

Do mer have their own language? I suppose they must seeing as our spoken word relies on the passage of air through our vocal cords
yes - tala is hello in mermish
Ossy Portocarrero hooks his arm under Aels and pulls him up so he can breathe. Ok dont move ael
heh heh
We lost him

My brother owns that book
It sounds right that there was only one, obscure, reference
but stil, a mention
Well, if it's mentioned, it counts.. :D
So mer do exist in Tolkien
They just don't enter into the stories much
And if he had lived another 50 years lol who knows what else he might have included
Ohhhh, wouldn't we love to know!!!
But are they descended from Ainur?
There is no way to tell from the one mention
yes . . would love to know their history in Tolkien terms
Well, if we don't know, we have to make it up. No one can saw we are wrong!

So how did he die? Old age?
He was fairly old

Do you swim, Bel?
erm... my other dragons swim well.. this one is awfully twitchy.. not easy to settle on the water. Juvenile dragons fly like bats on crack, and swim the same
Its cuz theyre young and have a need for speed
or no control?
likely both
or they are young and ON speed
probably that.. :D
oh, just being young is reason enough
Then no wonder they can't wait to grow up.. hehe.. gain some control over what they do
become sedate and dignified
and boring
:P... more like huge and fearsome so they can terrorise those who laughed at how they flew when they were young
Ossy is old and he is not boring...most of the time
Belenos isn't boring
never borning
true ...
nor is she dignified
yeah I am.. I'm a staid old tart who's stuck in her ways.. nods nods nods..
She pees on me. And eats swans at swan haven
BelenosStormchaser Magic snickers. I don't eat them.. I just.... suck on them a little.... taste them.. :d
call it a health check-- checking for lumps
AelKennyr Rhiano chokes back a sob
Well, you'll be happy to know I'm making new chewtoys... gingerbread men and candy canes.. :D So the swans will have a rest for a while
How socially acceptable!

So where did the mer come from? Are they descendants of Ainu?
Or maybe still ainur? I expect the water ainur would take mer forms
Ainu who got frisky with fish?
or fishy ainur who got frisky with humans
... traditionally... sea cows and seals were mistaken for mermaids.
if I hear ANY complaints from those sea turtles, Ossy ....
There are even folk tales in Ireland about seals who would come on land to mate at periodic intervals
so i've heard
That was before Jenny Craig HAHAHAHA
yes.. dugongs
silkies also.
So... its possible that Sea-maiar would mate with humans, and create... er... half-species?
worked for Melian
although how you could mistake a manatee for a mermaid ...
well its foggy and its far away and you see a fleshy looking tail, and youve been on a boat for months, and youre getting cabin fever
Ossy, have you ever seen a manatee?
and youre tired of harassing the cabin boy for sex. You start making shit up out of desperation
Actually it's interesting that mer, like dragons actually occur across cultures in myths, if I believe correctly?
yes they do :)
LOOK! A FLESHY TAIL!! It must be ATTACHED TO A WOMANS TORSO! (gods I hope its a womans torso.. I havent seen titties in MONTHS) etc etc
after so long at sea even a seacow looks good after a while huh Ossy
AelKennyr Rhiano blushes
Too much rum ration all round. :D
This reminds me of a song
uh oh
If I hear even a whisper that those manatees weren't consenting .... I'm warning you ....
I THINK, if any of te sailors had ACTUALLY caught one.. and tried to mate with it the legend would have quickly died, UNLESS
the manatee liked it?
they were desperate and unwilling to share the 'ugly truth' behind their ... excursions.
no but maybe.... saying you laid a mermaid and doing the whole "big fish" story that gets wilder every time....
bet manatees think humans are pretty small
its possible to get the whole 'half human' thing.
bad rum helps
manatees don't see vey well
but doesn't tradition have it that they call you down to the depths and you never return?
well, thats because they swim well. And sailors, drunk and stuff, may not..
So who is telling those stories? O.o?
And a manate can bash you with his big ass head, and you wont wake up from that
So tis easy to speculate at a distance but no one whose ever been there can say for sure as they never come back?
ornery sailors
The Siren's Song - -would distract the sailors and they would go off course
But you know what I mean. Manatees can be dangerous. So if you are stupid enough to dive in to chase one, you could easily die if they attack you. Or.. you might die from shame when you see one
They are actually pretty peaceful creatures, vegetarian
They must have a defense mechanism
I don't think manatees do have a defense mechanism Please watch this song about mermaids :) Its funny. They talk at the beginning. You can ignore that I guess xD Start at 1:10 or so. They talk about genitals about female and fish xD The song starts at 1:37 or so. And one of them dances. It's just win win
ty Ossy, for audio/visual presentation lol
One comment to make on that song.. typical male... :D
I would be happy with the cabin boy -- woops...that was in public chat...blushes
... pedophila do you good?
Hey.. fox is only a baby.. so I'm in the same boat Ael
I thought Fox was an ainu
only a young'un
Can ainur be "young-uns?"
((in RL, Fox is 26, Lihan, and I am 49, so one could call me quite the cradle snatcher))
Fifi Wickentower: pokes Belenos "you know, it might be nice to warm up the water for Lihan". Dragon smoke - it's puffing out from you :)

{Lihan crashes and relogs.}

His horn might be a problem
Makes good dental floss Fifi
erm, what are we talking about?
Walter is a unicorn seahorse, or rather a sea unicorn
and I mentioned he looked tasty, as I do
Bel thinks he looks tasty
Bel thinks most things look tasty
You edit, correct? ^^
yes :D
I hope so
and I do remove a lot of the off-topic, mostly, kinda, that is 3/4 of the conversation
Tonight it is
Do our discussions get posted somewhere?

So what do mer folk eat, speaking of things looking tasty.. :D
Don't they eat fish?
Wouldn't that be a bit canabalistic?
What do fish eat?
umm.. plankton
seaweed? I know mine do. They always eat the weed in their tank
oysters - shell fish

shrimp ... I could handle that
Seaweed is good nods
Kelp is really good for you
in miso soup .... yum
Fish also eat fish.It depends on the fish though
But you know, I can just see a mer person eating sushi and going 'alas poor cousin yorik, I knew him well'
Do mer folk think it is weird that land people eat cows?
lol You're just into violence
Well, they aren't the same.. fish and mer both have scales
No, but cows and humans are both mamals, and both give milk.
I love sushi
That idea is not at all bad in my mind, except... no rice
Lihan has a very interesting book on the erm . .Mating habits of Merfolk
Fish are smaller than merfolk, much like some wild cats are smaller than lions, and lions eat them. Aand theyre both cats
So if it's ok for dragons to eat cows then it should be ok for us to eat all mammals?.. :D
mmm delicious sushi
burgers yum
But, are mer folk mammals? Do the females have breasts?
In myths yes
Sailors would like to think so
I thought that was the point of the stories, that and the rest of the girl-parts
I think merfolk are cold and warm blooded
Well, if they were mammals it would ok for them to eat fish.. :D
but I dont think sailors really thought it out that far
Smelly, dirty, HAIRY, sailors-- no right-thinking mermaid would be interested
Don't forget the other H word too.. :D hence why they had breasts, in the sailors imaginations at least
no indeed
but - maybe they ate sailors lol
They did seem more interested in drowning the sailors
BelenosStormchaser Magic whispers, 'so would I'
There aren't 'happily ever afters' usually
Except for the disney story, I believe?
or stories now
Well. Disney can mangle abut any story
oh yes, dear sweet Ariel
Wasn't it based on a Hans Christian Anderson tale though
Yes, which was much bloodier
Yeah, and in that one, she doesn't get the prince
Yes she goes back to the sea.
Oh really? I've not read it actually.. There was an animated version, much much older, where she goes back to the sea
Because in order to become human, she would have had to kill the prince's real love, and she couldn't bring herself to do it
Ohhh.. that was a nasty condition to being human

Should we talk about the 4th age next time?
What about it?
I know little of the time of Men. *plans crash course*
Fifi our researcher! As well as primo shape changer