O glimmering island
set sea-girdled and alone -
A gleam of white rock
through a sunny haze ;
O all ye hoary caverns
ringing with the moan
Of long green waters
in the southern bays ;
Ye murmurous
never-ceasing voices of the tide ;
Ye plumèd foams
wherein the shore and spirits ride ;
Ye white birds flying
from the whispering coast
And wailing conclaves
of the silver shore,
Sea-voiced,
sea-wingèd, lamentable host
Who cry about
unharboured beaches evermore,
Who sadly whistling
skim these waters grey
And wheel about my
lonely outward way -
For me for ever they
forbidden marge appears
A gleam of white rock
over sundering seas,
And thou art crowned
in glory through a mist of tears,
Thy shores all full of
music, and thy lands of ease -
Old haunts of many
children robed in flowers,
Until the sun pace
down his arch of hours,
When in the silence
fairies with a wistful heart
Dance to soft airs
their harps and viols weave.
Down the great wastes
and in gloom apart
I long for thee and
thy fair citadel.
Where echoing through
the lighted elms at eve
In a high inland tower
there peals a bell :
O
lonely, sparkling isle, farewell !
J.R.R.
Tolkien
AN EVENING IN
TAVROBEL.
'Tis the time when May
first looks toward June,
With almond-scented
hawthorn strewn,
The tremulous day at
last has run
Down the gold
stairways of the Sun,
Who brimmed the
buttercups with light
Like a clear wine she
spillèd bright ;
And gleaming spirits
there did dance
And sip those goblets'
radiance.
Now wane they all ;
now comes the moon ;
Like crystal are the
dewdrops strewn
Beneath the eve, and
twinkling gems
Are hung on the leaves
and slender stems.
Now in the grass lies
many a pool,
Infintesimal and cool,
Where tiny faces peer
and laugh
At glassy fragments of
the stars
About them mirrored,
or from jars
Of unimagined frailty
quaff
This essence of the
plenilune,
Thirsty, perchance,
from dancing all noon.
J.R.R.
Tolkien
Present:
AelKennyr
Rhiano
Zakar
Zamin
Belenos (belenosstormchaser.magic)
Shawn
Daysleeper
Rhûn
Darkmoon
Summary:
Tol Eressëa was a large island off
the coast of Valinor. Its name translates from Quenya as the
Lonely Island. Ulmo pushed it back and forth across Belegaer
twice to transport the Elves to Aman. After that, it came to
rest forever just off the eastern shore of Aman, and was inhabited by
the Teleri of Aman, until they moved to Alqualondë.
Not all
the Teleri of Tol Eressëa moves on to Alqualondë. At all
stages of their journeys, some of the Teleri stayed behind at each
stopping place.
The
Sindar are a branch of Teleri that remained in MiddleEarth. The
branch of Teleri who came to Aman are called Falmari.
Tol
Eressëa is described as being mostly a natural envirionment:
"Alalminórë was a wooded area of Elm trees situated
in the center of the island. Many towns and villages were here ringed
around the city of Kortirion or Koromas, the island's principal city
located in the center of the region." Many of the
trees of which the Teleri gave seedlings to the Númenoreans came
from Tol Eressëa.
Tol
Eressëa is the location for The Cottage of Lost Play, some of
Tolkien's earliest writings about this universe (see Book of the
Lost Tales, Part One).
Tolkien originally dabbled with the idea of connecting his
stories to medieval history and mythology. Eventually, he
settled on making his universe separate .Tavrobel, Alalminórë,
Kortirion, the House of the Hundred Chimneys and the Cottage of Lost
Play do not appear in the published Silmarillion.
What we
see in the published Silmarillion... is this... With the end of the
First Age, many of the Eldar of Middle-earth exiles (and Teleri that
never left it) went to Aman, and lived in the island of Tol Eressëa.
Sometime during the early Second Age, the elves that chose to settle
there built Avallonë in the eastern part of the island. It was also
where most of the elves visiting Númenór came from at least until
the shadow fell upon the Númenóreans. The Númenóreans yearning
for the light of the west would often gaze at the great tower of
Avallonë, which they could see from the western-most parts of their
homeland. When Ar-Pharazôn the Golden broke the Ban of the Valar and
sailed to the Undying Lands with his Great Armament, Tol Eressëa was
surrounded by its fleets before going to Tirion but it is not known
whether its people were assailed by this act or not.
The
easternmost city on Tol Eressëa is Avallónë. It is inhabited
primarily by Noldor and Sindar who returned from Middle-earth after
the War of Wrath. It is unclear when Avallónë was built; it
may have been built by those Elves returning from MiddleEarth.
The city
became the symbol of the Blessed Realm to Men, as before on cloudless
days one could see the tower of Avallónë from the Meneltarma in
Númenor. After the fall of Númenor and the changing of the
world, Avallónë became the port of arrival for ships taking the
Straight Road. It is said that the Master Stone of the
palantíri was placed in Avallónë, and that Elendil often looked
that way desiring to see the Lost West.
Olwë
was leader of the group of Teleri who first came to Tol Eressëa.
He later moved to Alqualondë, but retained lordship over Tol
Eressëa. He gave permission for the returning Noldor and
Sindar to live in Tol Eressëa after the War of Wrath. Tolkien
gives no details of Olwë's relationship with those Noldor and Sindar
living within his realms.
Who
still lives in Tol Eressëa in later times?
What is
the effect of Tol Eressëa being the arrival port for ships taking
the "Straight Road" (that is, the crossing between parallel
universes, from the mortal world to the Undying Lands)?
How much
traffic is there on the Straight Road, after the end of the Third
Age? This is related to the question of how many Elves remain
in MiddleEarth after the Third Age. Does the "waning"
of the Elves refer to a reduced population, or only to reduced
influence?
Why do
Elves want to leave MiddleEarth? After hundreds, or thousands, of
years, they get tired of it.
Fourth
Age roleplay question: Is Tol Eressëa still in the Blessed
Lands, or was it moved to the "mortal" world with
Alqualondë?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Ok, tonight we will talk about Tol Eressea
Zakar Zamin listens
Zakar Zamin listens
AelKennyr
Rhiano: For the occasion I would like to share two poems from
Tolkien about Tol...
the first is called,
"The Lonely Isle"
O glimmering island set
sea-girdled and alone -
A gleam of white rock
through a sunny haze ;
O all ye hoary caverns
ringing with the moan
Of long green waters in
the southern bays ;
Ye murmurous
never-ceasing voices of the tide ;
Ye plumèd foams
wherein the shore and spirits ride ;
Ye white birds flying
from the whispering coast
And wailing conclaves
of the silver shore,
Sea-voiced, sea-wingèd,
lamentable host
Who cry about
unharboured beaches evermore,
Who sadly whistling
skim these waters grey
And wheel about my
lonely outward way -
For me for ever they
forbidden marge appears
A gleam of white rock
over sundering seas,
And thou art crowned in
glory through a mist of tears,
Thy shores all full of
music, and thy lands of ease -
Old haunts of many
children robed in flowers,
Until the sun pace down
his arch of hours,
When in the silence
fairies with a wistful heart
Dance to soft airs
their harps and viols weave.
Down the great wastes
and in gloom apart
I long for thee and thy
fair citadel.
Where echoing through
the lighted elms at eve
In a high inland tower
there peals a bell :
O
lonely, sparkling isle, farewell !
{Belenos
arrives. Greetings.}
AelKennyr
Rhiano: So, to begin with...Tol Eressëa was a large island
off the coast of Valinor. Its name translates from Quenya as the
Lonely Island, for it lay originally in the middle of the Belegaer,
far from any other landmasses. Ulmo pushed it back and forth across
Belegaer twice to transport the Elves to Aman. After that, it came to
rest forever just off the eastern shore of that continent in the Bay
of Eldamar, and was inhabited by the Teleri of Aman, until they left
to Alqualondë. Over time it had become a land of many beautiful
places and interesting sites such as: Alalminórë, the Land of Elms,
and Tavrobel.
Btw,
not all the Teleri left Tol Eressëa.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'Why did some stay?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: As happened so often along their journey westward, a
group stayed behind.
Shawn
Daysleeper: listens
Rhûn
Darkmoon nods, 'Ok.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: That is a good question. The Teleri were largest of the
three group who came to Aman, and the last. Along their way, groups
of Teleri would choose to remain behind in Middle Earth.
I think everyone here
knows that the Sindar are descended from Teleri who stayed to wait
for the return of Elwe when he wandered off and became smitten for a
couple of hundred of years with Melian.
Shawn
Daysleeper: nods
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Those who came to Aman became known as the Falmari.
They were the ancestors of the Valinorean Teleri, and the Sindar,
Laiquendi, and Nandor of Middle-earth.
Belenos
grins.. distracting females
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Some have likened the journey westward of the Teleri
with the Exodus and Moses in the Old Testatment
Zakar
Zamin:
I have a link to a graphic showing the Sundering of the Elves. I can
post it if you'd like.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Please share?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Thank you. Here is another one I bookmarked for
tonight... http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Teleri
Belenos:
would you like us to read those pages now, or look at them later?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: That graphic is a pretty good one. Actually it is that
graphic on the page
Zakar
Zamin:
That is a good graphic. More detailed.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Yes, I like it and it is easier to reference
But over and over,
during their journey, wherever they paused, some Teleri would choose
to stay behind.
Shawn
Daysleeper: ok, nods
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Alot of attention, in SL Tolkien based rp, in my
experience, has always been placed on the Noldo and Sindarin presence
in Middle Earth, but this is glossing over the role the Teleri
played. I think. Not that I am biased of anything...hides his tag.
Rhûn
Darkmoon nods and listens, 'Considering how many tribes of elves came
from the Teleri, it certainly sounds like it.' Rhûn Darkmoon grins
AelKennyr
Rhiano: To give you a more physical descriptiong of Tol Eressëa
Zakar
Zamin:
Looking at the graphic, wouldn't the Sindar be Teleri?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: They are. well,....to be perfectly correct. They were
originally Teleri.
Zakar
Zamin:
I'll have to refresh myself on the distinction.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: Rather like how the dutch
settles in early south africa became known as Boers, and by modern
day are simply South Africans.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Yes, Rhun.
Also,
however, there are the descendants of Melian and Elu to consider as
well, and the infusion of other elven clans.
Rhûn
Darkmoon smiles shyly at Ael, 'So, you were saying about the physcial
description of Tol Eressea?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano smiles. Ah...yes...Tol Eressëa
now Tol was very
naturalistic.
Alalminórë
was a wooded area of Elm trees situated in the center of the island.
Many towns and villages were here ringed around the city of Kortirion
or Koromas, the island's principal city located in the center of the
region. It was also, where the Cottage of Lost Play was located near
Kortirion.
Belenos:
so not a city .. but a more natural environment?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes
Zakar
Zamin:
What do you mean by "naturalistic"?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Alqualonde is actually a city. the chief city of the
Falmari on the shores of Valinor. The city is said to be north and
east of Tirion between the Calacirya and Araman in northern Eldamar.
Rhûn
Darkmoon looks to Zakar and points to Belenos' comment, 'What she
said.'
Zakar
Zamin:
So, rural?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: no, so very NOT rural
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'Rural is farms, I believe.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: there is a world of difference between naturalistic and
rural
Belenos
nods nods nods
AelKennyr
Rhiano: now, if you are a Tolkien buff, let me drop this for
your own pleasure later.
Cottage of Lost Play
also known as Mar Vanwa Tyaliéva was a small house on a hill on Tol
Eressëa. It was built by Lindo and his wife Vairë who lived there.
It had many small curtained windows and a comforting interior and was
a place of merriment and joy where many people especially children
came to visit. Eriol the mariner visited there and learned much of
ancient times
AelKennyr
Rhiano blushes at the aside.
Belenos
smiles.. no.. I like little things like that.. it helps give the feel
of the place
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Now, in addition to Alalminórë was also Kôrtirion.
Kôrtirion is the
principal city of Tol Eressëa. The city is located on a great hill
at the very center of the island in the province/region of
Alalminórë, the 'Land of Elms'. The Cottage of Lost Play is located
somewhere outside of the city.It was known for being the fairest
place on the island.
Now, here what what I
mean about Tol being natualistic.... Many beautiful trees grew on
Eressëa, and their seedlings were gifted by the Eldar to Númenor to
enrich the land. Some of them were:
• Oiolairë,
• Lairelossë,
• Nessamelda,
• Vardarianna,
• Taniquelassë,
• Yavannamírë
• Malinornë
• Lavaralda
• Elanor
• Lissuin
I think, Belenos, the
first one has especial significance for you?
Belenos
smiles.. yes.. it was the name of our land in Arda.. it means 'Ever
summer'
AelKennyr
Rhiano smiles and nods. Does...does anyone have any comments,
thoughts?
Shawn
Daysleeper: I am ok so far. Shawn Daysleeper:
smiles
Zakar
Zamin:
Not currently.
AelKennyr
Rhiano smiles
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'I was just thinking, how big
was Tol? To have a city in the middle but still very natural, it
would have been a fair size?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: There is one more city I would like to discuss... For
Tol, the principal city was Avallónë. The easternmost city on Tol
Eressëa and the Haven of the Eldar. It was founded either by the
Teleri during their long stay there, before they left the island for
Alqualondë, or more probably by the Elves returning from
Middle-earth after the War of Wrath. In any case, it became the chief
dwelling of the Noldor and Sindar, as they were not allowed or
unwilling to resettle in Valinor.
So, when is comes to
the Isle, this is the city least influenced by the Teleri, I think.
That is, if it was founded after the Teleri left.
Shawn
Daysleeper: ok. Shawn Daysleeper: smiles at
Ael
AelKennyr
Rhiano: The city became the symbol of the Blessed Realm to Men,
as before on cloudless days one could see the tower of Avallónë
from the Meneltarma in Númenor. After the fall of Númenor and the
changing of the world, Avallónë became the port of arrival for
ships taking the Straight Road. It is said that the Master Stone of
the palantíri was placed in Avallónë, and that Elendil often
looked that way desiring to see the Lost West.
Literary critics say
that Tolkien was apparently evoking the island of Avalon in the
legend of King Arthur, although the form Avallónë literally means
"near Valinor" in Quenya; compare this with Atalantë, the
name of Númenor evoking Atlantis. Moreover, in Tolkien's writings
originally Avallon was a later name for the island of Tol Eressëa,
not for the haven.
But nonetheless, Tol
Eressëa was designed as a kind of Isle of the Blessed inhabited by
Elves, presenting a mythological backdrop to the Anglo-Saxon invasion
of Great Britain. Tol Eressëa was conceived as a mythological
equivalent of the island of Great Britain or Albion before the
arrival of the Anglo-Saxons. Its main city, Kortirion, was located at
the same place as Warwick, at the very centre of the island. Later,
Tolkien dropped the identification of Tol Eressëa and Albion and
made it an island situated far to the west, within sight of Valinor.
In early versions of
Tolkien's legendarium, the island was later visited by Ælfwine (or
Eriol), an Anglo-Saxon from the early Middle Ages, which provided a
framework for the tales that later became The Silmarillion.
AelKennyr
Rhiano looks around to see if anyone has any thoughts.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'What do you mean by
Tolkien's legendarium?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: The phrase Tolkien's legendarium is used in the
literary discipline of Tolkien studies to refer to the part of J. R.
R. Tolkien's high fantasy fiction being concerned with his Elven
legends; that is, historic events that have become legendary from the
perspective of the characters of The Lord of the Rings.
so...the mythology of
his world? especially where it concerns the elves
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'So an Anglo-Saxon from the
Middle Ages visited Tol Eressea?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: in early versions of his writings, yes
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'Ohhh, this is as opposed to
what was published?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes. What we see in the published Silmarillion... is
this... With the end of the First Age, many of the Eldar of
Middle-earth exiles (and Teleri that never left it) went to Aman, and
lived in the island of Tol Eressëa. Sometime during the early Second
Age, the elves that chose to settle there built Avallonë in the
eastern part of the island. It was also where most of the elves
visiting Númenór came from at least until the shadow fell upon the
Númenóreans. The Númenóreans yearning for the light of the west
would often gaze at the great tower of Avallonë, which they could
see from the western-most parts of their homeland. When Ar-Pharazôn
the Golden broke the Ban of the Valar and sailed to the Undying Lands
with his Great Armament, Tol Eressëa was surrounded by its fleets
before going to Tirion but it is not known whether its people were
assailed by this act or not.
Rhûn
Darkmoon nods, 'Now I follow. So, it would appear he did initially
dabble with the thought of tying his world into more classic myths
and legends?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes
Rhûn
Darkmoon reads up, 'One moment, please.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: of course
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'Ok, so to rephrase my
question, it would appear that he did initially dabble with the
thought of tying his world into more classic myths and legends, but
then settled into keeping his world separate, although perhaps still
influenced by the legends and myths he knew?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes, so it seems, Rhun.
Zakar
Zamin:
Which leads to a question I've been pondering, though it may be
better to save it for another discussion.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Also, if you have happened to come across the Book of
the Lost Tales, Part One, most of it occurs on Tol Eressëa, and
places such as Tavrobel, Alalminórë, Kortirion, the House of the
Hundred Chimneys and the Cottage of Lost Play are mentioned. These
names do not exist in the later Silmarillion.
Belenos:
The Book of the Lost Tales?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes
Belenos:
what is that?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: The Book of Lost Tales is the title of a collection of
early stories by J. R. R. Tolkien, and of the first two volumes of
Christopher Tolkien's 12-volume series The History of Middle-earth,
in which he presents and analyses the manuscripts of those stories,
which were the earliest form of the complex fictional myths that
would eventually comprise The Silmarillion. Each of the Tales is
followed by notes and a detailed commentary by Christopher Tolkien.
Belenos:
ahhh.. ok.. :)
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Though they cover a broadly similar history, the Tales
are very different from The Silmarillion. Firstly the Tales are more
complex and detailed, written in an archaic style and include many
obsolete words and phrases. Secondly, the interaction between the
different elf-races is profoundly different from the Silmarillion:
The exiled Noldoli (or "Gnomes", the Noldor of the later
histories) suffer decisive defeat much earlier and become slaves of
the enemy they had sought to punish. When Thingol feels disdain for
Beren, it is because the latter is a gnome (not a mortal human) and
therefore a thrall of Melko.
The
framework for the book is that a mortal Man visits the Isle of Tol
Eressëa where the Elves live. In the earlier versions of the "Lost
Tales" this man is named Eriol, of some vague north European
origin, but in later versions he becomes Ælfwine, an Englishman of
the Middle-ages.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'So it would seem that
orginally Tol Eressea held a bigger, more detailed role in the
stories than it did with the later published works?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes, it does seem that way, Rhun.
Belenos:
why do you think that is?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: wow, what a great question. Remember Tolkien was quick
to change his mind...alot.
Belenos
smiles.. authors can be like that.. they come up with ideas that are
good, but others swiftly grow from them which are better..
Shawn
Daysleeper: all of this is new to me, all I knew about
tol Eressea was about it being Ulmo's island ferry
AelKennyr
Rhiano: heh heh Tug boat Tol!
and in the
Silmarillion, it is Sindar and the Noldor who are more prominent.
Belenos
grins .. talk about shifting tectonic plates around
AelKennyr
Rhiano: lol
AelKennyr
Rhiano: So...that is what we know of Tol. What we don't know,
and what interests a goodly number of us here, some for very selfish
reasons, is what would Tol be like in our world of the 4th Age
Belenos:
ohhh yes..
AelKennyr
Rhiano thinks of that original Micky Mouse cartoon, "Steamboat
Willie."
Shawn
Daysleeper: olwe is king of tol eressea in 4th age too
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes, He never steps down as Lord of Tol.
Rhûn
Darkmoon muses, 'Would it still be in Aman? If he is King of both Tol
Eressea and Alquqlualonde, there would be a case for bringing Tol
through to Middle Earth, perhaps, as has happened with Alqualonde?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: wow
Rhûn
Darkmoon: "Eeps at my
mis-spelling.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: I...I never thought of that.
Belenos
smiles.. Rhun is right.. and it could lead to some awesome RP too
AelKennyr
Rhiano: nod nod nod
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'So how was it Olwe was lord
of both?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: I have wondered how the people of Tol would view Olwe
and the Teleri of Alqualonde.
All
we know, Rhun, is that he never stepped down as Lord of Tol.
Zakar
Zamin:
There were times the King of England had holdings in France.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: And the present Queen of Great Britain is Queen over
more than England.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'I'm sorry for not knowing,
but how was he lord of Tol in the first place?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: that was where the Teleri first came when they came to
Aman.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'Before they went to
Alqualonde?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes, Rhun, he was
Shawn
Daysleeper: he is king of the noldor city in tol too? I
forgot the name of it blushes
AelKennyr
Rhiano: oh...umm... you mean Avallónë, Shawn?
Zakar
Zamin:
Does this help: Olwë became Lord of the island of Tol Eressëa,
where the Teleri built a great number of cities, and grew in number.
When they finally came to Eldamar some centuries later, Olwë became
king of Alqualondë.
Shawn
Daysleeper: sorry I don't want to confuse you
Rhûn
Darkmoon smiles, 'Then I can see some great role play potential there
for Olwe and Tol Eressea, don't you think?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: You see, Rhun...The Teleri were sundered from the first
two clans, the Vanyar and the Ñoldor, because they tarried behind
searching for their lost king Elwë (later known as Thingol), and the
first two clans were ferried across to Valinor on a huge island
before. The Maia Ossë, kept them company while they waited, and
became their friend. Later when Ulmo returned with the island ferry,
the Teleri had grown to love the sea. Ossë convinced Ulmo to anchor
the island in the bay of Eldamar, off the shores of Aman, and
persuaded many of the Teleri to remain in Middle-Earth. The Teleri
long remained on this Lonely Isle, and their language changed in
different ways from that of the Vanyar and Ñoldor. Much later the
Teleri learned to build ships, and finally made it to Aman.
We were beach bunny
elves
Belenos
grins and pictures Olwe surfing
AelKennyr
Rhiano: That is why we like the music of that famous Teleri
group, the Beach Boys...nod, nod, nod
Rhûn
Darkmoon grins
Belenos:
lol
Zakar
Zamin:
Were Elvis and Annette Teleri? Zakar Zamin thinks of the beach movies
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Well, actually Elvis was an alien, and Annette a Noldo
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'Elvis was an alien?'..grins
AelKennyr
Rhiano: lol
Zakar
Zamin:
That's right, I forgot Elvis was ET, but I didn't know that about
Annette
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Well, we don't like to embarass her...shhhh...She sings
ok for not being Teleri.
Zakar
Zamin:
Well, us humans liked her.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: But yes, Zakar has the right of it. They eventually did
come to Aman and did settle and build Alqualnde.
Belenos:
so for now in the 4th age Tol would still be near Aman... but who
would be living there I wonder?
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Remembering that Avallónë became the port of arrival
for ships taking the Straight Road, it leads to some interesting
questions about what happened to Tol Eressea over the ages.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'Is the Straight Road used a
lot by the end of the third age?'
Zakar
Zamin:
Watching the movie, you would think so.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Well, we know it was used in later ages because Bilbo
Baggins found the route.
Shawn
Daysleeper: many elves leaving middle earth
AelKennyr
Rhiano: The Straight Road is the route that leaves the earth's
curvature through sky and space to the ethereal land of Aman. The
route could be compared to going on a spaceship or crossing into a
parallel universe.
The Straight Road,
so called because it follows the old path across Belegaer from before
the Akallabêth when the Flat World was made Round, is only kept open
to Elves, who are allowed to sail to it on their ships by a special
grace of the Valar.
A ship departing on
the Straight Road, when observed from the shore, would slowly become
smaller to sight until it disappeared in a point, and not drop behind
the horizon.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'By our time, in the 4th age,
would elves still be departing Middle Earth?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Well, it would seem that in the course of alot of our
discussions over the months, alot of people assume so.
Belenos:
it makes me wonder how many elves there were .. and are any remaining
behind in Middle Earth?
Zakar
Zamin:
That may depend on the birth-rate of elves.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Well, one can debate whether the term "Waning of
the elves" actually refers to the decrease of their influence in
the world of Middle Earth or if it actually refers to the decrease in
the population of elves.
Zakar
Zamin:
If we take the first understanding, elves could have lost influence
as the human population grew.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: in Tolkien, we see them removing themselves from Middle
Earth to the West, but the question I have is this: if that is
extending all the clans of elves who evolved over time and passage of
the ages, or is it referring to those who are more directly descended
from the Eldar clans?
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'I am not under the
impression the elven birthrate is quite the same as humans, although
I could well be wrong, but yes, I think you are right Ael, that it
could be a matter of influence rather than population.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes, Zakar.
In D&D type rps,
elves typically have a lower birth rate.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'The question I have is why
would they all leave Middle Earth?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: We have no mention of that being so with Tolkien's
world as far as I know.
Rhûn
Darkmoon nods, 'Ok.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Some would claim that it is because of the Elven
longevity.
Zakar
Zamin:
That has been my understanding, but their birth-rate needs only to
match the departure rate to keep the population constant.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: They become "tired" of life after the passage
of several hundred years.
{Shawn
needs to leave. Farewells.}
AelKennyr
Rhiano: One of the problem with discussing some races that are
predominant in both D&D type setting and in Tolkien is that
people tend to blur the lines between how the characters are
portrayed in each and do not seek to distinguish.
So..I
have people wanting to insist that elves in Tolkien's world have low
birth rates, are shorter than humans, etc.
Rhûn
Darkmoon nods, 'I can see how the influence happens, but I would
prefer to stick with how Tolkien wrote his elves, whenI know what is
correct.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano nods. Nothing against D&D. but that is not what we are
creating here...we are a fantasy work inspired by Tolkien.
Rhûn
Darkmoon nods, 'I like that. I prefer it like that.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: I am really excited about having a Tol Eressea.
Belenos
smiles
Rhûn
Darkmoon nods nods nods, 'I cannot wait until it moves.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: I think one of the things to consider is how much does
Avollone influence the rest of the isle over the passage of time.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'Because it is the end of the
Straight Road?'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes
Belenos:
it's sort of like the Aman visa checking station.. :D
AelKennyr
Rhiano: And I did once have a rp try to "dethrone"
Olwe
Belenos:
oh?? do tell. I hadn't heard about that..
AelKennyr
Rhiano: He decided that Fëanor would probably have become Lord
of Tol Eressea.
Belenos:
would 'probably' have become Lord of Tol Eressea??
AelKennyr
Rhiano: which was not really logical...It would be more logical
to suggest Finarfin, because Earwen, Olwe's daughter. married him.
But Finarfin remained firmly in Tirion.
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'Yes, that would make much
more sense.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: but Finarfin became king in Tirion eventually, and
still is in the 4th Age, for all we know
Rhûn
Darkmoon: 'So Olwe is still Lord of Tol
Eressea in the 4th Age.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: yes. At least, I have never seen anything that says
different?
Rhûn
Darkmoon smiles, 'Then methinks that soon we must put our heads
together and draw it into our 4th Age storyline. What do you think?
Especially as it will soon join your lands.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: nod nod nod yes, please. But first the rebuild of
Alqualonde.
Zakar
Zamin:
I'm sure one epic event at a time is sufficient.
AelKennyr
Rhiano: I feel like I have done nothing but talk this entire
time. I hope I was not boring you all tonight.
Rhûn
Darkmoon smiles, 'It is thoughts will swirl around in the back of our
minds in the meantime.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: I..i got excited about Tol.
Zakar
Zamin:
Much of this is, if not new, a refresher.
Belenos:
that is why I am in no hurry to join Tol to the continent....
Alqualonde will be rebuilt first and then Tol will join and be
built..
AelKennyr
Rhiano: Nor am I , Belenos. I think that most think of Tol
only in terms of the first and Second Ages.
Rhûn
Darkmoon nods, 'I agree.'
AelKennyr
Rhiano: What shall we discuss next time?
Belenos:
for a topic, what about the advent of men into Middle Earth.. their
initial role/knowledge etc of their world.. and what their
role/knowledge might be by the 4th age?
